Curse

leprekan · Sep 29, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

And you don't see that as a problem?

Again ... off topic.

The Ebay rich are a self correcting problem ... they get all they want too fast and leave the game. They are a TINY percentage of the playerbase so this has VERY little impact on anything. The fact they are around helps to keep the "Chinese farmer" dumping items for sale to meet gold quotas set in the sweatshops. This benefits all the people presently crying they can't afford those perfect upgrades. Again supply and demand.

The only way Ebay rich tie into this topic ... if EVERYONE suddenly is able to get all they want too fast they will also quit the game. Argue it all you want but at the end of the day it comes down to people want more with less effort. Anet made 99.9999% of things available to ALL as collector items or greens. That small percentage they did not ... is beyond RARE for even the rich to find these. The possible update won't make 20/20 gold staffs any easier to come by. There are items I do not have and I fall into the rich category ... there are two groups here ... I look at those items as something to work towards ... the other groups wants them now easy.

Mordakai · Sep 29, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco

What do you mean for granted?

Do you know how hard some people grind UW just to get those "granted wishes by the tooth fairy" ?

I mean talk like, "well, a 30 hp mod is only 30k".

and "Greens are worthless."

That's what I'm talking about. People who have so much money, they think 30k is nothing.

All I'm saying is, keep your precious Crystallines. That's fine. But give me access to all the mods at a reasonable price, so I can make my own "uber" item of my choice!

leprekan, you misunderstand me yet again. I wasn't talking about ebayers being a problem, I was talking about spending days trying to sell an item being a problem.

After all, the only people buying high end items are the Rich, which as you say, is a limited number of people anyway. High-end items do not benefit the majority of the players, no matter how many times you try to convince us of that!

Franco · Sep 29, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

mmm... Ever decided to try what the "rich blessed by the gods" people do and work for it >< lol

Loviatar · Sep 29, 2006, 07:10 PM // 19:10

i have two (2) kinds of weapons

1 looks real nice has crap stats drops all over

2 something i think looks like crap but does decent damage.

this will allow me to have a weapon i like the looks of at all times not just when running around admiring the scenery and not fighting

Mordakai · Sep 29, 2006, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco

mmm... Ever decided to try what the "rich blessed by the gods" people do and work for it >< lol

Simple answer: I don't have time.

I bought Guild Wars believing the "no grind" talk. And, mostly, it's true. If you just play the game, you'll get access to most to the things you need.

Now, here's where it gets hairy: Do you "need" Sup Vigor? Apparently not. Do you need Sup Absorption? Apparently, yes, because Anet increased the drop rates.

Do we need "inherent bonus modifiers" as a commodity? Apparently, yes, because it looks like Inscriptions will be added (in some way), to the game.

Franco · Sep 29, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

But you dont need everything expensive, for example, sundering 20/20 is the most expensive mod in this game and yet one of the worst mods.

Just play smart, and anyone can get what they want.

Velath · Sep 29, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco
mmm so instead of Anet just get ebay to stop allowing gold sales.. Its easier to crash the whole game economy and ruin it for millions of players ?

It won't crash the economy of the game...quit saying that all you fear mongerers!

And how would ANet get them to stop trading it! I imagine people have tried in other games but I doubt there's clear rules saying these pixels are IP of ANet (which they should be) therefore we can not allow selling and buying of said items...Do you know how much effort it would take to review EVERY item that goes on EBay. Good luck. How long did it take Napster to get shut down and it was a lot easier to monitor as it was all about songs at that point. Best way is to track the users making these huge transactions and see if its legit. I imagine looking into an account's history and seeing an influx of 500 ecto at one point is good indication of EBaying (with no equivalent trade item, i.e. perfect swords/axes).

It will be bad, yes, and possibly prices will be all over the place initially. I'm willing to bet in 6 weeks it'll be stable (prices WILL be different) and you collector's will have new goals. I'll put something on the line Franco, cause A) we don't ACTUALLY know what will happen and B) economies deal with MAJOR upsets all the time and survive, if not improve because of some of them.

Anyway, I was trying to get back on topic at one point with discussion about the various aspects of the salvageing.
1) All inherint modifiers...I'm good with that
2) Choose which mod to salvage, 100% (I'm assuming this)...Not really liking this one cause there should be a little fear and excitement salvageing for perfect mods.
3) Weapon not destroyed during salvageing process...Don't like this at all, no triple mods and crappy weapon from one item. Just too much. Most everything but perfects will end up at merchants just cause trading is TOO much of a hassle anyway.
4) Swappable...relates to 3, again, don't like it. I want to put it on an item and tough luck, it's there unless I want to use up a different mod or salvage. I'd use it if it came in, but I'd prefer it not to.

There's more but I'll leave it at that for now, just what I think. Please discuss these issues. PM me if it's personal.

leprekan · Sep 29, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I mean talk like, "well, a 30 hp mod is only 30k".

and "Greens are worthless."

That's what I'm talking about. People who have so much money, they think 30k is nothing.

All I'm saying is, keep your precious Crystallines. That's fine. But give me access to all the mods at a reasonable price, so I can make my own "uber" item of my choice!

Sorry Mord ... but I do get it.

These items you are saying MUST be made cheaper are nothing but vanity. 30hp pommel is needed like a Porsche is ... a 29 does the same job for a fraction of the cost. You want top shelf and don't want to put forth the effort to get it. You stated that vanity meant nothing to you (your armor post) what exactly is a 30 pommel? IN any town you can find high req perfect weapons that are affordable to anyone willing to apply a little effort. In those same towns one off upgrades are dirt cheap and ALWAYS for sale.

Bottom line is if EVERYTHING has little value ... many things will be harder or impossible to get for the casual gamer .. buying skills, armor, the MANY titles that cost millions. Dispute, twist, debate all you want it still comes down to this. When everyone has all those vanity items and drops are all common MANY will lose the replayability factor in this game. When people get everything in a game the game quickly becomes boring and they move on.

Franco · Sep 29, 2006, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Well if they are going to let people salvage 15^50 mods they could atleast make ectos more expensive ><

Mordakai · Sep 29, 2006, 07:44 PM // 19:44

1. All inherent modifiers: Approved.

2. Choose which mod to salvage, 100%: Oh, yes, please. This is one of the most frustrating things in the game, am I gonna get +30 hp or a pile of wood planks? Anet fixed the Runes a long time ago, this is far overdue.

Now, if they made you choose an option and you would lose the other mods, that would work, too. At least then, it keeps Mods somewhat rare, and presents some cost to "swap" them. As long as I get to choose one mod, I'm happy. (And if a weapon has two or more perfect mods, shouldn't there be an incentive to keep it whole anyway?)

3. Weapon not destroyed during salvaging process. I'm not 100% on this. It might be too much. If you get a 15>50 max damage weapon, it'd actually be better to split it apart for sale. And again, if you have a rare weapon with a perfect mod, should there be some incentive to keep it whole?

4. Swappable: As long as there is a cost, (see point 2), this wouldn't be an issue.

Franco · Sep 29, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

meh way i see it, Gold rare skinned weapons are gonna go down like a rock and +30 hp mods and 20/20 sundering mods and all that are going to fly up up up because everyone will want to buy them for their 15^50 weapon.

so ... Lower the price of something, raise the price of another? ...

Why not just leave it as it is ><

Mordakai · Sep 29, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Sorry Mord ... but I do get it.

These items you are saying MUST be made cheaper are nothing but vanity. 30hp pommel is needed like a Porsche is ... a 29 does the same job for a fraction of the cost. You want top shelf and don't want to put forth the effort to get it. You stated that vanity meant nothing to you (your armor post) what exactly is a 30 pommel? IN any town you can find high req perfect weapons that are affordable to anyone willing to apply a little effort. In those same towns one off upgrades are dirt cheap and ALWAYS for sale.

Bottom line is if EVERYTHING has little value ... many things will be harder or impossible to get for the casual gamer .. buying skills, armor, the MANY titles that cost millions. Dispute, twist, debate all you want it still comes down to this. When everyone has all those vanity items and drops are all common MANY will lose the replayability factor in this game. When people get everything in a game the game quickly becomes boring and they move on.

You contradict yourself.

You even admit there are titles, skills, armor, etc. There will be plenty of things for people to want, to play for. I doubt anyone plays GW just to get a +30 hp mod! In fact, the very idea is ludicrous. "I play a game I hate, just to get one extra HP?" For what reason? If you're not enjoying the game itself, what does it matter?

Skin is vanity. Max mods are not vanity, they should be common, like Runes. You can't tell if someone has a max mod or not. It's not something you show off.

In fact, I think Anet should get rid of non-max mods all together. They're practically worthless, anyway, right? Maybe with this new system, Anet will just drop the whole idea of "non-max" mods.

But it really doesn't matter what you or I think: Anet will "fix" this as they see fit, and then we can come back a year from now and see who's right.

Franco, the prices depend on how this is implemented. Will we really be able to get all the mods, and keep the skin? If so, I can't see any way that prices will stay high on any mod for long... they'll just be too common, and too easy to switch. People won't need 20 15>50 mods, and eventually will sell them.

Oh, and I don't see Perfect Golds crashing, either. People pay for color. It's crazy, but true.

But, I could be wrong...

EDIT: Leprekan says "Bottom line is if EVERYTHING has little value ... many things will be harder or impossible to get for the casual gamer .. buying skills, armor, the MANY titles that cost millions."

You keep implying that people like me need high-cost items to somehow function. And I keep telling you, it's just not true!

I've picked up every skill I've ever wanted. Eventually, they cap out at 1,000 gold. But by then, you have a nice base of skills to choose from, and if you absolutely need another skill, it's not that hard to earn 1k just by playing the game (ie, no farming necessary).

Bottom line: You don't need a lot of gold in this game. Period.

But, in any case, this is a side debate, because if it really was the case that the only way to survive in this game was by Farming and Trading items, then that would be a HUGE problem.

If you think skills or armor cost too much, that's a great topic for another thread, but really has nothing to do with Inscriptions.

Ghull Ka · Sep 29, 2006, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Dispute, twist, debate all you want it still comes down to this. When everyone has all those vanity items and drops are all common MANY will lose the replayability factor in this game.

And on the other hand, MANY will not lose the replayability factor. Farming for items is one form of endgame activity. It is not the only form of endgame activity, no matter how badly people who enjoy that activity want the rest of us to believe them.

Frankly, I'll be very happy when the entire "godly items" mentality is eliminated from Guild Wars' gaming community. Attractive, effective, max stat weapons that are easily attainable by every player = the win. "Working" for the items that you want in a "no grind" game = the loss.

Oh, and as far as the "everything handed to you" line... I'm sorry, but "everything" isn't handed to you in this game. Quest completions, mission completions, storyline completions, skill captures, exploration... these things are goals of gameplay. Not having to save up 200k for an axe with the mod you want and the skin you like is nowhere near a "win button".

TGgold · Sep 29, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

On the issue of NEED vs WANT.

I would argue that all items that *improve character funtionality* should logically be in the NEED category. Personally, I believet that items should progress at a natural rate, and in the last area of the game every gold item should have at least one perfect mod. I would say, if something gives one character an edge over another, it is not VANITY, it is a NEEDED item for the other player.

Example: Have you even been hit down to one health before? I know I have. I know that 1 extra health can make or break a person. Therefor, every character who has played their way through the game should have access to perfect mods.

The ONLY items that should up price would be for the vain. Examples: RARE skins, FoW Armor, Liquer, etc. These items offer nothing other than the satisfaction of having.

Loviatar · Sep 29, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco

meh way i see it, Gold rare skinned weapons are gonna go down like a rock and +30 hp mods and 20/20 sundering mods and all that are going to fly up up up because everyone will want to buy them for their 15^50 weapon.

so ... Lower the price of something, raise the price of another? ...

Why not just leave it as it is ><

actually (if article is correct) the mods prices will drop as fast as superior absorbs did.

if you can choose that mod and guarantee salvage of it the mod prices will follow what happened when runes became guaranteed salvage.

they have decided prices are way too high and this will bring them down.

if not down enough they will increase the drop rate a month later after gathering the game stats they need to judge ir.

remember PVP faction was introduced very conservatively, bumped, bumped again, and then bumped 5 X for the weekend 5X event then set to 5X after studying the results.

what we will see is a small first step not the final result

Rhys ap Llysgwr · Sep 29, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

I wonder, will shield, focud, and wand stats be interchangable too? That could be interesting..

Mordakai · Sep 29, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhys ap Llysgwr

I wonder, will shield, focud, and wand stats be interchangable too? That could be interesting..

To me, it's one of the most interesting ideas about this entire subject!

I hope the modifiers are exchangelable along the same item, not cross-exchangable (ie, you couldn't put a +5 en mod from a wand on a shield).

We'll see, though.

Franco · Sep 29, 2006, 08:35 PM // 20:35

lol you forgetting that some people just play to get those weapons and rare skins because they already finished all the storylines like 10 times ><

Akhilleus · Sep 29, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

most greens can be bought for the same price of cheaper as a +30 sword pommel, quite frankly the "i dont have what i need to function" argument is inapplicable...anyone who makes it CLEARLY is doing something wrong. i GUARANTEE YOU i could buy a brand-new account, start it from scratch, without a single gold coin in storage, and work it up to having a green weapon within 24 hours. i could probably have an 8 15>50 +30 hp gold within a few days, and i can almost guarantee i'd have a 1-2 million net-worth inside of 2 months. its just a matter of knowing how, simple as that. in the past dozens of people have made hundreds of thousands, if not millions from my PCs and market investment suggestions. and tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of people have made it big off of the released 55ing builds.
the people who pioneered trading and various methods of farming, are almost all welthy...very, very wealthy. yet, they see fit to help others make an easier living for themselves. if us rich traders&experimental farmers are such greedy, self-interested bastards, then why do we consistently help others, out of the goodness of our hearts?

but let me ask you this, all of you guys who think we're so evil, and do nothing but ebay, and have no idea what we are talking about...all of you who think you know SO much about the effects things have on the guildwars economy, and complain that its so hard making money...i pose a question to you.
if you know so much more than we do about guildwars economics, why are you still poor&complaining about it?

answer: fact of the matter is, if people spend HALF as much time trying to make money as they do bitching about not having it, they should be well-off. im sick of seeing people blame others for their own misfortune.
when i started playing guildwars, a perfectly modded gold item (without a fancy schmansy skin) would cost 300k...8 15>50 10:10 +30 longswords were just over 700k at the time, fells with equal mods were about 2.7million...
i walked into a guildwars with a MUCH more elitist economy than exists now, and flourished in it, within weeks. within 3 weeks several of the higher end traders knew me...within 3 months, i was one of them. the argument that stuff is too expensive to possibly ever afford, does not fly, period.
i told myself "this is my goal, this is what i want, and this is how i will get there" i spent ZERO time asking people for help or wishing i could get handouts, instead, i put forth the effort and know-how required to do well, and succeeded...quickly.
look at it this way, for every hour you complain or mope, is an hour you can spend farming for a few plat. after that, just invest it right. i promise you, people who invest properly (trading, or through mats/runes, whatever) can make money quickly. but if you'd rather sit around and complain about being poor, rather than doing something about it, then thats your fault, not anets.

milias · Sep 29, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

I agree with Akhilleus and I suggest people check out this thread started by capitalist:

The Haves and the Have Nots...